Open POD pod

Explaining what Peer Supported Open Dialogue actually entails can be challenging. Talking about talking in order to explain the content of a network meeting is like trying to hold smoke, as Amanda puts it. In this series we hope to record conversations that are dialogical and form a dialogue, with insights from creators, practitioners and teachers of Open Dialogue. We would love it if we could form a dialogue with you. We would like to quite literally demystify what Open Dialogue is all about by having a dialogue about it.

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Open POD pod

3.4 Adrian James

December 13, 2024 • Fiona Eastmond • Season 3 • Episode 4

0:00 | 4:46

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Here at CNWL where Fiona and Gareth are based we had a visit from Adrian James, NHS England’s medical director for mental health and neurodiversity. Adrian loved what we are doing in the pilot phase of Peer-informed Open Dialogue. Adrian spent most of his time with people who use our services in South Westminster and who have been benefitting from the introduction of Peer- informed Open Dialogue. We managed to catch him for 10 minutes with the roving mike and here is what he had to say.

POD at Central and North West London NHS Foundation Trust

Fiona Eastmond | LinkedIn

Narrator 0:09

Welcome to season three of open POD pod. My name's Fiona and I'm an open dialogue practitioner, just beginning to develop some hours of practice. We'd really love it. If the things that we talk about in this podcast, Could sit alongside any learning that anyone's doing about open dialogue.

Fiona 0:27

I'm here with Adrian. Adrian, I wonder if you'd like to introduce yourself?

Adrian 0:31

Hello, I'm Adrian James, I'm Medical Director for Mental Health and Neurodiversity at NHS England. Really good to be here.

Fiona 0:39

Fantastic. You've been visiting our pod pilot, our open dialogue pilot in CNWL. And I just wondered what your reflections were about that today.

Adrian 0:51

So I've visited a lot of services in this job and in other jobs that I've done. I've worked in a lot of services and I think the thing that really strikes me about the open dialogue approach here is it really does put the person with lived experience right at the center. I mean, we all say that's what we do or we try to do, but this really does and that comes across from people who are running the services, people who are leading the services, working in the services, but also the reflections of those with lived experience. That was really very powerful. And I guess the second thing is, is how important networks are for us. to all of us and Open Dialogue, it not only uses the network that you've got, but it actually helps you to grow your own network in a way that you want to and that you feel comfortable with. Those two things, I think, are the things that I've, I will really take away from what I have to say has been a really special afternoon for me.

Fiona 1:51

Do you have any further reflections about Open Dialogue in general then? How it's touched your role particularly.

Adrian 1:58

I think it's, it's driven home the importance of relationships and again, that's a very sort of easy thing to say, isn't it? But how you actually establish your relationship with people who you care about, who care about you, but also who you're working with and the centrality to all of that and around, you know, Trust in those relationships, being very open about your feelings, even if that's a difficult thing to share. Whoever it is, everybody feels open to share what, what they truly think. But it's all in the cause of, of trying to help the person at the centre. And that's the person who is, is presenting in, in some form of distress.

Fiona 2:42

Thank you. What was your standout moment from today, one little bit.

Adrian 2:47

I think hearing from people with lived experience who had been very sceptical about services, who had been in services over many years and hearing how positive they were about their own experiences in a way that you don't often hear within the mental health world that that was the staggering thing to me how positive they felt about it how much they felt they benefited and actually their generosity in wanting to tell me about it and wanting to see others being able to benefit from it

Fiona 3:27

It is wonderful I just wanted to ask you what you see the future of open dialogue being in the NHS.

Adrian 3:34

Well I think there are lots of things coming together. I think people realise that things aren't right as they are and that we have to look at that. To a new approach. There are lots of things going on at the moment. There's a big program around Culture Of Care, There are the pilot programs around community mental health centers, and there's open dialogue. I will have to wait and see about the evaluations, both the evaluation here, but also the, ODESSI, evaluation to see what the learning is from them. But I can't help thinking that there's a way of bringing all those things together. And I think it could transform the care of, of the people that we care for.

Fiona 4:14

I sincerely hope so, that after all is what we're here for.

Adrian 4:17

Indeed, that's what I'm here for as well, I hope.

Fiona 4:22

Thank you, it's been an absolute pleasure.

Adrian 4:24

Great, thank you.

Narrator 4:26

Thank you for listening we really hope that we'll have the pleasure of having you as one of our listeners again. And that's it for this episode of Open Pod Pod. Join us for the next episode.